When the Veil Thins: Creation, Stolen Skulls, and the Spirits of Samhain

Maria: 00:00:22

Hello from Cork

Jim: 00:00:24

Hello from New York

Maria: 00:00:25

Is mise Máire, Seanchai Chorcaí.

Maria: 00:00:28

It's Maria, the Cork-based storyteller.

Jim: 00:00:31

It's me, Jim, here in Fayetteville, New York

Maria: 00:00:33

We can't wait to tell you a few stories!

Jim: 00:00:40

And welcome to our latest episode of From Cork to New York, and

Jim: 00:00:46

this time it's following a definite in-person visit from New York to Cork.

Maria: 00:00:53

That's right!

Jim: 00:00:53

So we had quite the, quite the month this that just went by.

Maria: 00:00:58

Oh my God, it was so good, Jim, to see yourself and Jill here.

Maria: 00:01:03

And of course, we were carrying on with the, uh, Story Bridges project.

Maria: 00:01:08

So Omar came as well.

Maria: 00:01:10

We had a lovely full house.

Maria: 00:01:11

Yeah, it was great.

Maria: 00:01:14

You know, and I suppose I brought you around Cork, and we went to

Maria: 00:01:17

see… yeah, we went to see Cobh, and we went to see Gougane Barra and

Maria: 00:01:22

Blarney, so we got quite a lot in.

Maria: 00:01:24

And then we went on to Listowel and the Listowel Storytelling Festival, and

Maria: 00:01:29

you saw Sheehan's Storytelling Cottage.

Maria: 00:01:32

300 years of stories in the walls.

Maria: 00:01:35

So we, we fitted quite a lot in.

Jim: 00:01:38

We certainly did.

Jim: 00:01:39

And I, you know, Listowel was… I had high expectations, and they were exceeded.

Jim: 00:01:45

I mean, it was a wonderful experience.

Jim: 00:01:48

What a lovely community of storytellers, but also Listowel is such a

Jim: 00:01:55

community of creativity and artistry.

Jim: 00:01:58

Just a, a wonderful, wonderful place.

Maria: 00:02:00

You know?

Maria: 00:02:01

Yeah.

Maria: 00:02:02

So I suppose it, it's worth mentioning that they run the Writers' Festival there

Maria: 00:02:08

for over 50 years now, and that we've had some very famous writers set that up.

Maria: 00:02:15

One of my favorites was John B. Keane, because as a, a young actor, he

Maria: 00:02:20

would've given us his stories to put up on the stage for free, you know?

Maria: 00:02:24

And you met his son, Billy.

Jim: 00:02:26

Met Billy, yes.

Maria: 00:02:27

And Billy is so lovely, you know?

Maria: 00:02:30

And then there's Cara Trent, who runs the Kerry Writers' Museum.

Maria: 00:02:34

And, uh, just the welcome is absolutely amazing.

Maria: 00:02:38

And John, our Farity, you know, the, the man who runs the, the sessions there.

Maria: 00:02:44

So I was telling you before you came, Jim, that in Listowel it's a living tradition.

Maria: 00:02:51

So it's, um, you know, it's not that they're reviving the storytelling,

Maria: 00:02:55

but they're just carrying on the tradition of the telling, you know?

Maria: 00:02:59

So- yeah, so now you know what I mean.

Jim: 00:03:02

Now I know.

Jim: 00:03:02

And you know, one of the things that happened afterwards: so there was a,

Jim: 00:03:08

a wonderful session that we had there at the, at the museum, and my wife,

Jim: 00:03:14

Jill, fell in love with Irish sessions.

Jim: 00:03:18

And we, as you mentioned, we traveled around a little bit, uh, after that.

Jim: 00:03:24

Our last day was in Dublin, and Jill said, "We have to find a

Jim: 00:03:30

session." So we went, we went to a couple of pubs, had a great time.

Maria: 00:03:36

Yeah.

Jim: 00:03:37

And as we were… we found one that we, we could certainly have participated

Jim: 00:03:42

in the session and the exhaustion of three weeks away started to descend.

Jim: 00:03:49

Yeah.

Jim: 00:03:50

And we said, "Okay, we'll keep the Listowel session in our

Jim: 00:03:53

hearts and go, go get some sleep."

Maria: 00:03:57

Well, that's great to hear.

Maria: 00:03:59

But one place in Dublin that is a must-see is the Leprechaun

Maria: 00:04:04

Museum run by Tom O'Rahilly.

Maria: 00:04:06

He's also very involved in Storytellers of Ireland.

Maria: 00:04:10

And when FEST comes to Ireland next year, so that's the Federation of

Maria: 00:04:15

European Storytellers, when it comes to Ireland next year, it will be

Maria: 00:04:19

hosted at the Leprechaun Museum.

Maria: 00:04:21

But he has such brilliant old books.

Maria: 00:04:25

I'm afraid that if you went in there, Jim, we'd never see you again.

Maria: 00:04:28

You'd disappear into the books.

Jim: 00:04:31

Well, uh, if, uh, if that's the case then I guess I better get my

Jim: 00:04:35

tickets for next year, so it seems.

Maria: 00:04:37

That's it, for sure.

Maria: 00:04:38

Yes.

Maria: 00:04:38

You know?

Maria: 00:04:38

And, and therefore the bonds of the story road grow ever

Maria: 00:04:42

deeper and stronger and longer.

Maria: 00:04:45

You know, it's great.

Maria: 00:04:47

It's lovely to see it, you know?

Maria: 00:04:49

So, um- So yeah, it was an absolutely amazing visit.

Maria: 00:04:54

And of course, now we have landed in the season of Samhain, so

Maria: 00:05:00

the winter season in Ireland.

Maria: 00:05:02

So even since you've gone back, Jim, the weather has

Maria: 00:05:05

gotten a little bit more Irish.

Maria: 00:05:08

With a lot more rain.

Maria: 00:05:10

And the mornings have gotten darker, and it's harder to get out of bed.

Maria: 00:05:15

You're probably experiencing the same thing- … wherever you are, you know?

Maria: 00:05:20

And the evenings are drawing in, and all the old Samhain traditions and

Maria: 00:05:26

legends are coming forward, you know?

Maria: 00:05:30

So are you finding, now that you've gotten home, that you want to nestle in next to

Maria: 00:05:34

the fire, and not hard to get out of bed?

Jim: 00:05:38

Well, yes and no, because the other thing that happens in this

Jim: 00:05:42

season is the absolutely riotous explosion of color in the trees.

Maria: 00:05:50

We don't have that here.

Jim: 00:05:51

Yeah, see, so we, I have it in our yard, in, uh- five minutes away

Jim: 00:05:57

in the deep forest, and everything is just erupting in colors.

Jim: 00:06:02

And so, yes, while I would love to sit wrapped up in a blanket with a, with

Jim: 00:06:08

a hot toddy and, and a fire in front of me- … I also have been taking

Jim: 00:06:13

walks in the woods and just- smelling the autumn, and, ah, it's wonderful.

Jim: 00:06:19

It's wonderful.

Maria: 00:06:19

Oh, definitely.

Maria: 00:06:20

Like, we can definitely smell the, uh, falling leaves here as well, uh, but

Maria: 00:06:26

we're waiting for the one big storm that brings them all down in one day, you know?

Maria: 00:06:31

So- Mm-hmm … I noticed when I went to Woodstock and I took the train from New

Maria: 00:06:36

York to Woodstock, and we went down the Hudson River, what a beautiful sight it

Maria: 00:06:42

was because it was in the middle of fall.

Maria: 00:06:44

And all the different colors of golds and reds and beauty that were dipping into

Maria: 00:06:50

the river was just absolutely magical.

Maria: 00:06:53

But here, one good storm and the branches are bare until next time.

Maria: 00:06:59

So that's where we are at the moment.

Maria: 00:07:01

I suppose I've just started, uh, doing a little bit of woodwork as well, Jim.

Maria: 00:07:06

And it's bringing me close to my dad.

Maria: 00:07:08

You talked about smells and how evocative they are, and how they

Maria: 00:07:13

can bring you backwards on the memory road into a story, you know?

Maria: 00:07:19

And, um, I suppose that's what the woodshop is for me.

Maria: 00:07:22

You know, I smell the varnish, and I'm right back in my old childhood

Maria: 00:07:26

days with my father saying, "Get out." "You're going to lose a finger.

Maria: 00:07:30

You're going to lose a finger." But thanks, thanks to his safety

Maria: 00:07:35

rules, I never did, you know?

Maria: 00:07:37

And it's absolutely amazing now to be making little stools.

Maria: 00:07:41

And to be carving into the wood, uh, it's just a joy, you know to create still.

Maria: 00:07:47

Yeah.

Jim: 00:07:49

Well, I have a, piece of a story today.

Jim: 00:07:53

So as, as we mentioned, after being down in Listowel and Ireland,

Jim: 00:07:58

we went up to Tromsø, which is up above the Arctic in Norway.

Jim: 00:08:03

And we met with a wonderful storyteller there, an indigenous storyteller.

Jim: 00:08:09

And also did a lot of time in museums and just learning about the Sami people.

Jim: 00:08:16

And that of course got me all interested in their stories.

Jim: 00:08:19

Why else would I be doing that?

Jim: 00:08:22

And it took me back to the Kalevala, which is actually Finnish, but when you get

Jim: 00:08:28

that far north, the modern countries don't have as much to say with who people are.

Jim: 00:08:34

It's more the people rather than the, the national boundaries there.

Jim: 00:08:38

They share parts of those stories, and I'd like to share the beginning

Jim: 00:08:42

of the Kalevala, because it, it kind of feels like the right

Jim: 00:08:47

time of year to be telling it.

Jim: 00:08:50

So:

Jim: 00:08:54

In the time before time,

Jim: 00:08:59

when all there was, was all there was,

Jim: 00:09:09

there was a woman, her name was Ilmatar, and she lived in the air.

Jim: 00:09:16

She lived up in the skies, and beneath her there was nothing but ocean.

Jim: 00:09:23

They call her the Maiden of the Air.

Jim: 00:09:26

She lived up there, and she had lived there for millennia, floating and flying

Jim: 00:09:33

and enjoying the views and enjoying life.

Jim: 00:09:39

Except that she was alone, and she really didn't want to be alone.

Jim: 00:09:47

And as we often find in these wonderful old stories, it wasn't that she just

Jim: 00:09:55

wanted companionship, she wanted intimacy.

Jim: 00:10:01

She really wanted to have someone.

Jim: 00:10:06

And so she thought, " I've been up in the sky too long.

Jim: 00:10:12

I need to come down to the waters and maybe something will happen there."

Jim: 00:10:18

And so she descended down, down, down to the ocean.

Jim: 00:10:23

Not a calm place.

Jim: 00:10:26

Not always stormy, but a, a living, breathing ocean.

Jim: 00:10:32

And she settled in the ocean and started to float, rocked

Jim: 00:10:37

by the winds and the waves.

Jim: 00:10:41

And suddenly a storm blew up out of the east, and angry

Jim: 00:10:49

pillars of foam came towards her.

Jim: 00:10:54

And what do you know?

Jim: 00:10:56

She became pregnant!

Jim: 00:11:00

And here she is floating on the surface of the ocean, pregnant in a huge pregnancy.

Jim: 00:11:13

And it lasted for 700 years.

Jim: 00:11:21

I don't know anyone who would want to be pregnant for 700 years,

Jim: 00:11:27

but this was Ilmatar's state.

Jim: 00:11:33

And she floated on her back all over the place, and nothing she could do would

Jim: 00:11:40

seem to bring about the labor and birth.

Jim: 00:11:46

And she started to weep.

Jim: 00:11:49

She said, "I gave up the skies to try and find intimacy, and what did I get?

Jim: 00:11:57

This centuries-long pregnancy.

Jim: 00:11:59

I can't go back up to the heavens.

Jim: 00:12:02

Whatever can I do?

Jim: 00:12:05

You know, I should have stayed up there and been a virgin.

Jim: 00:12:10

It would be better."

Jim: 00:12:11

And so as she was drifting there, she let a prayer leave her lips and she

Jim: 00:12:21

just said, "Please, please, Lord of all, release me from this. Release me!"

Jim: 00:12:31

But nothing happened.

Jim: 00:12:34

What did happen is there was this duck that was also flying around

Jim: 00:12:44

the ocean looking for a place to nest because she had eggs to drop.

Jim: 00:12:52

And Ilmatar, looking up, saw her flying and thought, "There's a kindred spirit."

Jim: 00:13:01

And she lifted her knee up out of the water so that the duck could come and

Jim: 00:13:07

build its nest on her knee, which it did.

Jim: 00:13:13

She made a big nest.

Jim: 00:13:15

She laid her eggs, and she sat there keeping them warm.

Jim: 00:13:22

Now, if you've ever tried to hold your knee up for a long period of

Jim: 00:13:28

time, you know it's not comfortable.

Jim: 00:13:31

So her knee began to ache, and her leg began to ache, and

Jim: 00:13:35

all of a sudden it twitched.

Jim: 00:13:38

And the nest went tumbling into the water, and the eggs broke open.

Jim: 00:13:47

And what do you know?

Jim: 00:13:49

The white of some of the eggs formed the sky, and the yolk of one of the

Jim: 00:13:57

eggs became the sun, and other parts of the eggs became the ocean floor.

Jim: 00:14:04

And this was amazing.

Jim: 00:14:07

But here she is still, now alone again with nothing, no one to accompany her.

Jim: 00:14:17

So years went by.

Jim: 00:14:19

Now the sun is rising and setting.

Jim: 00:14:22

And finally, ten years later, she can feel a stirring in her womb.

Jim: 00:14:32

And she starts to turn and twist.

Jim: 00:14:34

And as she does, she stirs up the bottom of the, of the ocean, and

Jim: 00:14:39

she starts to make mountains with her toes, and fjords, and bays.

Jim: 00:14:47

And finally, finally, finally

Jim: 00:14:52

the young life inside her awakens.

Jim: 00:14:59

And you know, it's a boy.

Jim: 00:15:01

He's not happy about having been in there for 700, 800 years.

Jim: 00:15:06

So he starts to try and figure out his way how to get out.

Jim: 00:15:14

And in a way that I cannot imagine anything more magical,

Jim: 00:15:20

his little toe finds the opening to open the womb and let him out.

Jim: 00:15:29

And he is finally born, and he washes up on the shores of one of the pieces

Jim: 00:15:36

of land that his mother has, has made.

Jim: 00:15:40

And as he's born, she rises back up into the sky, and he starts to plant the

Jim: 00:15:47

trees and the vegetables and the grasses.

Jim: 00:15:52

And so life on Earth begins.

Jim: 00:15:57

And that's the first rune and a half of hundreds of runes in this story.

Maria: 00:16:07

Oh my goodness, it's beautiful, you know?

Maria: 00:16:11

And it speaks to that time when people were oral and aural, you

Maria: 00:16:17

know, where they shared information by the telling and the listening.

Jim: 00:16:22

The one thing I wish I could do is I wish I could sing

Jim: 00:16:26

it, because it was always sung.

Jim: 00:16:28

Sung to a drum beat.

Jim: 00:16:30

So maybe someday I'll, I'll figure out how to do that.

Jim: 00:16:34

But-

Jim: 00:16:35

but it is a world full of images.

Maria: 00:16:37

Yeah.

Maria: 00:16:38

You know, and that singing of the story was something that the old seanchaí

Maria: 00:16:43

did in Ireland as well, you know?

Maria: 00:16:45

So it was a way of remembering, was to put them into a chant, and you

Maria: 00:16:49

still get the very, um, long song stories, and you still get the spoken

Maria: 00:16:56

word stories in Irish sessions.

Maria: 00:16:59

I, I absolutely love them, you know?

Maria: 00:17:02

And I would love to hear that song.

Maria: 00:17:04

So if you come a- across anyone doing that kind of thing, then I definitely

Maria: 00:17:11

would love to hear that, you know?

Jim: 00:17:13

Yes.

Jim: 00:17:13

I, and I will say, I've not been able to find melodies from the Kalevala.

Jim: 00:17:19

I know they must be out there.

Jim: 00:17:20

Haven't found them yet.

Maria: 00:17:21

Mm-hmm.

Jim: 00:17:22

But there's a similar epic that the Sámi have.

Jim: 00:17:26

And I've been able to find some of that music.

Jim: 00:17:29

So, eh, it'll make its way in.

Maria: 00:17:32

It might make its way into our little podcast We'll be seeing, you know?

Maria: 00:17:37

So I'm, I'm definitely in the, uh, seasonal change of Samhain

Maria: 00:17:44

here in Ireland, you know, and I've just released my Samhain, uh,

Maria: 00:17:50

workbook, Back into the Wild Again.

Maria: 00:17:52

You know, you can find it on storyfromscenes.com.

Maria: 00:17:55

Uh, so it's g- it's going on for its second turn now, because we have the Wheel

Maria: 00:18:00

of the Year, and for some reason, last year I started with Samhain, and it's a,

Maria: 00:18:07

it's an important season to, uh, to us.

Maria: 00:18:10

And I suppose it's an important season in the world.

Maria: 00:18:13

You know, the four seasons seems to have cropped up independently

Maria: 00:18:18

in so many nations, you know?

Maria: 00:18:21

So, um, in terms of Samhain, and because we've just come from Listowel, dun, dun,

Maria: 00:18:29

dun, dun, dun, I'm going to talk about some of the lovely stories in duchas.ie.

Maria: 00:18:38

That's D-U-C-H-A-S.I-E for our listeners.

Maria: 00:18:43

And this would be the school's collection.

Maria: 00:18:45

And in a time when we weren't allowed to be educated in schools, and you were

Maria: 00:18:52

not allowed to speak your own first language of Irish, uh, the, when we ca-

Maria: 00:18:58

became a state, in an effort to save all of the stories that were floating

Maria: 00:19:04

around in the blood of the Irish, Sheila de Valera gave a cóipeoir, or a

Maria: 00:19:08

copy book, to every child in Ireland.

Maria: 00:19:11

And when we went to the fantastic Butter Museum in Cork, you saw some of those

Maria: 00:19:18

scripts written on the wall and what they said about the butter in Ireland.

Maria: 00:19:23

But one of the other things that happened was, um There was a man called Darwin,

Maria: 00:19:30

you know that fella who said that instead of being made in seven days,

Maria: 00:19:35

that we actually developed in science.

Maria: 00:19:40

And because he was doing that work, and that was, work was very popular in

Maria: 00:19:44

the UK especially, and it was around the same time that the book, Around

Maria: 00:19:49

the World in 80 Days was made and of course, in a time before planes, w-

Maria: 00:19:54

well, there was a great fashion, Jim, and the fashion was to collect skulls.

Maria: 00:20:02

And so Darwin had one or two skulls that he showed people, you know, in,

Maria: 00:20:07

in that, um, great club that they had in London, and they said that if

Maria: 00:20:13

anybody wanted now to follow in the footsteps of, um, of, of Darwin, that

Maria: 00:20:20

they'd have to have 20 or more skulls.

Maria: 00:20:23

So people went skull hunting.

Maria: 00:20:25

Can you believe that?

Maria: 00:20:27

And this isn't even a story, Jim.

Maria: 00:20:29

This is history.

Maria: 00:20:32

So, uh, there was a man that came over from the UK and he hired a, a boat and

Maria: 00:20:38

he went down the west coast of Ireland, and he came to the Aran Islands, and

Maria: 00:20:44

he went onto the main Aran Island, and there he came across an old church.

Maria: 00:20:51

And in those days, when somebody new in your family was going to be buried, you

Maria: 00:20:56

dug down into the family grave and you took out all of the long bones and you

Maria: 00:21:02

put them on the side, and you took out the skull and you put it to the side, and

Maria: 00:21:06

that allowed you to bury the next body.

Maria: 00:21:10

But, over time, those graves became full, so they started taking out the

Maria: 00:21:15

skulls and they put them into a big iron strongbox, and they put them next

Maria: 00:21:21

to the nave in the altar inside in the church, this big black strongbox.

Maria: 00:21:27

And of course, our ancestors used to do that in the likes of

Maria: 00:21:31

Newgrange, so the old bones would be where the worship place was.

Maria: 00:21:37

So when people went to their Sunday mass, they were actually under the

Maria: 00:21:41

roof with the ancestors' skulls.

Maria: 00:21:45

So this man, he came in and he saw the black strongbox, and he opened it up

Maria: 00:21:50

and he saw the skulls and he thought, "I'll collect a few of them." So he took

Maria: 00:21:54

them all and he put them into a burlap sack, and he climbed back down the hill.

Maria: 00:22:00

And he went off along his way, and he ended up going to Maynooth.

Maria: 00:22:04

I'm not even after getting to the story now.

Maria: 00:22:08

And he, he came to Maynooth, and in, um, he offered, uh, the skulls to the

Maria: 00:22:14

university, and they put them to one side.

Maria: 00:22:19

And then, we became a, a republic, a number of years passed, and there was

Maria: 00:22:24

a man in, who was working in Listowel, of course, a researcher in Listowel,

Maria: 00:22:32

and he had his PhD in research.

Maria: 00:22:34

And he went up to Maynooth, and he said he was walking down the stairs, and he could

Maria: 00:22:40

see, you know, skeletons on the wall, and he wanted to know where these skulls were.

Maria: 00:22:46

And he found the skulls, and then he said, "Oh, well, I know where their long

Maria: 00:22:50

bones are. You know, I know where the long bones of these skeletons are in

Maria: 00:22:55

Inishmaan in Galway, so I think I'll take those skulls back now, and they can be

Maria: 00:23:01

buried, and thank you for minding them."

Maria: 00:23:03

And the people said, "What do you think? No way." Sorry, it was in Trinity College.

Maria: 00:23:09

They said, "Are you joking?

Maria: 00:23:10

We thought you were a scientist." And he said, "I am, but these are

Maria: 00:23:14

our people, and we need to bury them with their long bones." And they

Maria: 00:23:20

said, no, and a battle began, and the battle went on for about 10 years.

Maria: 00:23:24

And then a whole new thing started happening in America, with the people

Maria: 00:23:31

who were Black in America, and they were saying, "We are people too," you know?

Maria: 00:23:35

And, the campaign was called something first.

Maria: 00:23:38

I can't remember what the, the first name in that was.

Maria: 00:23:42

But that campaign spread right across the globe.

Maria: 00:23:47

And the Inuit people, who had been called Eskimos by Darwin, they asked for their

Maria: 00:23:53

skeleton back from Trinity College, and they said, "Of course you should have

Maria: 00:23:58

them back." And then this man was able to say, "Well- What about the Irish people?

Maria: 00:24:04

Shouldn't they also be buried with their bones?

Maria: 00:24:07

So they said, "Oh, go on, take the skulls then." So he went up to, to

Maria: 00:24:12

get the skulls, and he gave us an, uh, an absolutely amazing lecture on this

Maria: 00:24:17

at one of the festivals in Listowel, one of the storytelling festivals.

Maria: 00:24:22

And he said one of the things that they did was they went to Dúchas

Maria: 00:24:27

because they said, "You have no proof."

Maria: 00:24:29

And he said, "Oh, we have proof, but it's in the stories." Because at that

Maria: 00:24:35

time we weren't allowed to keep any records on ourselves, we weren't allowed

Maria: 00:24:39

to talk our own language, et cetera, but things survived in the stories.

Maria: 00:24:43

And that brings me to this story, Jim.

Maria: 00:24:48

After all of that a lovely-

Jim: 00:24:50

What a long, beautiful trek!

Maria: 00:24:52

A lovely Samhain story.

Maria: 00:24:54

Exactly.

Maria: 00:24:54

And now people know exactly what it's like in Listowel.

Maria: 00:24:58

You ask for directions, and you could end up anywhere, and with any

Maria: 00:25:02

kind of story, and any kind of song.

Maria: 00:25:04

So that's the story behind the story, and here is the story.

Maria: 00:25:08

Once upon a time, a man decided that he would go on his holidays to Inishmaan in

Maria: 00:25:16

County, just off of the coast, of County Galway, right out in the Atlantic Ocean.

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And when he went there, he said to the woman, "It's Samhain.

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It's the season of winter coming in, and I'm laughing to myself that I

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might not get off this island." And she looked at him, and she said, "I wouldn't

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laugh about things like that, my lad." And he said, "Have you a story?" And

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she said, "I do." And they settled down to the table, and you can find

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this story in the Dúchas collection.

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And she said to him, "Well, now," she said, "I had a boy, and he was

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a bit lazy when he was growing up.

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And if there was a shortcut to be taken, well now, he'd take that shortcut."

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And she said, "I suppose I had him spoiled, because he was my youngest

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boy, and I had the breakfast on the table for him every morning before he

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come down, and he didn't have to worry about where lunch was coming from,

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for it would be on the table for him.

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And he didn't have to worry about his dinner, and so he'd never

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had to earn stuff like that."

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But school was finishing for him, and I was trying to make him ready, ready

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for the work life and the fact that he might have to leave this island

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and leave Ireland itself to get work.

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So I had a word with the gravedigger, and I said to the gravedigger, "Will you take

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my son on to help you dig the ground?"

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And he said, "I would be very glad of the help, Mrs., indeed, and I would,

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but I can't really afford to pay him an awful lot of money." "That's good

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training for the world," she said.

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"He'll be out here," she said, "at 8:00 tomorrow morning." So she sent her son

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out, and when he heard what he would be earning, which was only coppers, and it

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would clink in your pocket rather than make that lovely rustling noise of the

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paper money, well, he thought a second time about it, but he was after signing

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up, and he was only going to be doing it for one season, enough to be able to get

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his ticket together to go off to America.

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So he went out on the first day, and it was raining.

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Sure you know it was on that island off the coast of Ireland.

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And as he began to dig down, he wasn't taking much care.

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And the man said, "Here now, here now, Sean, take more care in you digging

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down, for God knows what you'll hit with that spade. Be gentle with it now."

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And as he said it, and as if to prove a point, thunk, there was a

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sound, the sound of metal on bone.

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And when he picked it up out of the earth, he saw that it was the skull,

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the skull of the relative of the person that would be buried here today.

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And he picked it up as if he was playing hurling, and he knocked it across the

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graveyard, and the gravedigger fell to his knees in shock, and he said, "Oh

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my goodness, and what are you doing?"

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And he said, "Sure, he can't feel it. He's long, long gone from

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this world." "Ah, but that's not the point," he said. "I felt it.

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It went through me.

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You're to treat those bones now as if they were your own bones." And he gave

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him a lecture and a half, and even though it went into the head of Sean,

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it really didn't go into his heart.

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And that night, he went home, and the gravedigger called to his mother's

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house, and he said, "Look, I don't think this is going to work out." And she

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said, "Sure, give him another chance.

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Give him another chance." And he says, "Well, I need a break from him.

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Send him along to me next week instead." "Indeed, I will, and thank you very much

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for your patience," she said, and he got a second lecture from his mother.

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"Go on up to bed now," she said.

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"Go up to bed, and I'll call you down for your dinner." And he could smell the bacon

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and cabbage that was after being put on.

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She was after getting the lump of meat in celebration of his new job, but she was

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thinking now did he deserve it at all?

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And when he went up, because he was so exhausted, he fell

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into a sleep for himself.

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And then there came to the door a man looking for a room for the night.

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That wasn't unusual in the Aran Islands back in those days.

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There was no such thing as a B&B or anything like that, and if travelers

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came, they just knocked on the first door that they came to hoping for a bed.

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And when he had done that, he was told that the house was

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full, so now he was at her house.

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"Ah, sure, I, I could give you a room all right for the night,"

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she said, and they agreed a price.

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"Do you want something to eat now?" "No," he said.

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"I'd like to go," he said, "instead, on a tour of the island, particularly

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up to that old ancient church that we can see from this window here.

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Do you do tours at all, missus?"

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"I don't," she said, "but my son will." And they fixed a price again, and she

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roared up the stairs, "Hello, boy.

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Get up, Sean.

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Get up.

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There, there's a man here for a tour." Sean was kind of torn from a

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lovely, warm, and comfortable sleep.

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Can you imagine it now, on a dark and wet night, to be called

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out of your sleep like that?

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And he came down the stairs not very happy with himself, and he said, "Is

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my dinner ready?" And his mother said, "Not yet, but maybe you can help this

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fella to work up an appetite, too.

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Take him on a tour to the church.

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Sure it is only down the road, and when you come back, your

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dinner will be ready." "All right.

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So, Mam, and I will."

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And off he went out the door with the stranger.

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"Did my mother ask you your name at all?" "She did," he said,

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but never answered the question.

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And then Sean didn't like to ask him a second time, because he'd

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given the information to his mother.

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But he made a mental note that when he went home, he would ask

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her who was this fella and what family line did he come from at all.

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They went up then towards the grave, and the man bent down,

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and he put his hand on his head.

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"What's wrong with you at all?" said Sean.

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"Oh," he said, "I've a pounding headache as if somebody had hit me

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in the head with a shovel." He turned then and looked deep into Sean's eyes.

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"I, I'm, I'm very sorry for that," he said.

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"And did someone hit you?"

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"How can you ask me that question," he said, "when it was

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you that was the one that did it?

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And only for the kindness of your mother, only for her giving me the céad

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míle fáilte of our people, the hundred thousand welcomes, I would pull you into

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my grave with me now for being so bold as to hit me in the head with a shovel."

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Well, Sean fell to his knees.

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"I'm so terribly sorry," he said.

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"What can I do to make up for it?"

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"You'll serve here," he said, "in the graveyard for at least five years,

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and you'll be as delicate as if you were lifting your own baby out of

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the ground when you dig the graves from now on." "I will," he said.

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"I will." And he pointed his face to the earth.

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And when he looked up to see if they had a bargain, the traveler was gone.

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Well, he ran the roads back to his mother's house.

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"Do you want your dinner?" she said.

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"And where is the stranger?" "What was his name, Mam?

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What was his name?" And she said, "Sure it was Sean Donnelly, boy.

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What ails you?

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Sean Donnelly, your own great-granduncle."

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"Oh, Mam," he said, "I'm stuck here for five years more."

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Sin é mo scéal.

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That is my story.

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I hope you liked it.

Jim: 00:34:03

What a perfect story for the season.

Jim: 00:34:06

That is wonderful.

Maria: 00:34:08

It's a Samhain story all right.

Jim: 00:34:11

It certainly is.

Jim: 00:34:13

My goodness.

Jim: 00:34:14

His, his own uncle or great-uncle.

Jim: 00:34:18

Yeah.

Jim: 00:34:18

Yeah.

Maria: 00:34:19

That's it, you know?

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So there, there was a great reverence really for the, um, for the thinning

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of the veil and for the fact we're all connected back, and we are all connected,

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you know, and we should remember that.

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But right now, Jim, in the shops in Cork City, they have Christmas,

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uh, sweets or candy as you call it.

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Christmas candy.

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How dare they?

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We haven't even done Halloween yet.

Jim: 00:34:45

That's right.

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So we have to do the month of remembrance, and

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then it's time for Christmas.

Jim: 00:34:51

Oh, yes, we suffer from the same malaise here.

Jim: 00:34:55

There's no question.

Maria: 00:34:57

That's it.

Jim: 00:34:59

You know, I was thinking as we, as we have this great story about skulls.

Jim: 00:35:05

Another part of our story bridges is that Morocco seems to be the

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place where humanity emerged,

Maria: 00:35:15

Yes

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… Jim: By some accounts, somewhere between three quarters of a million

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and a million and a quarter years ago.

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That's how long it's been.

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And they know that from the skulls that they found in-

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Isn't that amazing?

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… Jim: in Essaouira and, uh, all the, in, in Morocco.

Maria: 00:35:33

Yeah.

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Oh, my God, incredible, you know?

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And I suppose it's important to say that I was in Finland as

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well when you were in Norway.

Jim: 00:35:42

Oh, yes, yeah.

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And, uh, they, they also go way, way back, and they have

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incredible stories, and they did 30-foot skeleton horse.

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It was absolutely amazing, you know?

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And, um, it, it, like, to see the really ancient imagery come to life but with

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modern technology, you know, the modern engines, and then didn't the engine give

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up, and they had to push the horse home.

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30 feet.

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30 feet.

Jim: 00:36:15

You know, and, and that is the… It is that's the season, isn't it, when, as

Jim: 00:36:20

you say, the veil is thin, but it's also in its own unusual way, its own renewal.

Maria: 00:36:30

Yeah.

Jim: 00:36:31

You know, we think about the spring as being the time of renewal, but I

Jim: 00:36:36

think this season is, is also, you know.

Maria: 00:36:39

Absolutely.

Maria: 00:36:40

Yeah.

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Like, this, like, I suppose in the old Celtic calendar,

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Samhain is the dream time.

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So it's the time of going to seed.

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So it's the time of, you know, of rebirth.

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So there's the death, life, death cycle.

Jim: 00:36:54

Yes

Maria: 00:36:55

And I suppose in spring it's the new life; the new life that's coming.

Jim: 00:36:59

We're about to enter the 700 years of, uh, Ilmatar's pregnancy.

Jim: 00:37:04

You know?

Maria: 00:37:04

Dun, dun, dun, dun.

Maria: 00:37:08

Can you imagine, Jim?

Maria: 00:37:09

Oh, gosh.

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Oh my goodness.

Maria: 00:37:11

Yeah, it'll be shocking, you know.

Maria: 00:37:14

So it's great to see you on the other side now again, like, you know- it

Maria: 00:37:20

was lovely to see you in Cork as well.

Maria: 00:37:22

And I look forward to our next meeting on the Story Road.

Jim: 00:37:26

Next meeting, and we have some firm and tentative dates in front of us.

Jim: 00:37:32

You know, we are both expecting, they say, the good Lord willing and this

Jim: 00:37:37

creek don't rise, to meet in Marrakech in what is now just three months.

Jim: 00:37:42

It's right around the corner.

Maria: 00:37:44

A turn of the Wheel!

Jim: 00:37:45

Yeah.

Jim: 00:37:46

And then, we are plotting and planning for a, a really exciting opportunity

Jim: 00:37:53

for people to take part in, in a year.

Maria: 00:37:56

That's right.

Maria: 00:37:57

But not- not quite a year anymore.

Maria: 00:37:58

It's like-

Jim: 00:37:59

Not quite a year, but

Maria: 00:38:00

yeah … nibbled on, nibbled on but we're hoping

Maria: 00:38:03

to, uh, do it for October 2027.

Maria: 00:38:07

And we're dropping little nuggets out now to people over the next while.

Jim: 00:38:11

Yes.

Jim: 00:38:12

So keep your ears and hearts tuned to the next autumn time,

Jim: 00:38:18

and we'll see what we can tell you about that as the weeks go by.

Jim: 00:38:22

All right then.

Jim: 00:38:23

Well, it's just grand to have seen you in person, but to see you in

Jim: 00:38:29

this wonderfully vibrant way as well.

Jim: 00:38:32

So it's, it's good to, good to be back with each other in this, in this place.

Maria: 00:38:37

For sure.

Maria: 00:38:40

Will we say goodbye from Cork?

Jim: 00:38:42

And goodbye from New York, but only for a while, because we'll be

Jim: 00:38:46

back again with another episode.

Jim: 00:38:48

Absolutely.

Maria: 00:38:50

We can't wait to see you on the Story Road one more time.

Maria: 00:38:54

And from this time till that, be safe on the Story Road.