Demons, Trails, and Laughter

Speaker: 00:00:24

Hello from New York!

Speaker: 00:00:25

Is mise Máire, Seanchai Chorcaí.

Speaker: 00:00:28

It's Maria, the Cork-based storyteller.

Speaker: 00:00:31

It's me, Jim, here in Fayetteville, New York.

Speaker: 00:00:33

We can't wait to tell you a few stories!

Speaker: 00:00:39

So I'll just say again, Hears Crow, it's so good to be able to welcome you

Speaker: 00:00:45

back a second time to this podcast.

Speaker: 00:00:48

As I mentioned, you're the first person we've asked to come back twice.

Speaker: 00:00:52

I'm sure you won't be the last, but we're very pleased to have you be the first.

Speaker: 00:00:57

Remind us very briefly about where you live and, and the way

Speaker: 00:01:01

you live your life these days.

Speaker: 00:01:04

Um, I live, my husband and I have a, uh, white cedar octagonal log cabin

Speaker: 00:01:12

in the middle of 10 acres of woods.

Speaker: 00:01:15

We cannot see, nor unless they're getting rowdy, our neighbors.

Speaker: 00:01:20

And we live in the tradition of the Narragansett people

Speaker: 00:01:24

who are from Rhode Island, and that's where the reservation is.

Speaker: 00:01:31

And we enjoy our life with two Maine Coon kittens.

Speaker: 00:01:38

And a lot of sunshine, a lot of rain.

Speaker: 00:01:42

And the reason that I wanted to be here was I wanted to live where there were

Speaker: 00:01:46

more trees than people, and I made it.

Speaker: 00:01:49

Ah.

Speaker: 00:01:50

My husband found the land.

Speaker: 00:01:54

Oh.

Speaker: 00:01:54

So.

Speaker: 00:01:55

Hear- Hears Crow, I don't know if you've heard about a beautiful

Speaker: 00:01:58

book called To Speak for the Trees.

Speaker: 00:02:01

Yes.

Speaker: 00:02:02

Oh, my God, I've just … I ate the book, you know?

Speaker: 00:02:06

Yep.

Speaker: 00:02:06

So, for our listeners, To Speak for the Trees, a great book.

Speaker: 00:02:11

And then I, because of that book, I understand everything you've just said.

Speaker: 00:02:16

I just- … absolutely everything.

Speaker: 00:02:19

I, I love trees as well.

Speaker: 00:02:22

And, and the last thing I'll mention before we get you to tell

Speaker: 00:02:25

us a story, Hears Crow, our audio listeners won't know this, but each

Speaker: 00:02:30

one of us is sitting in a forest.

Speaker: 00:02:33

Uh, as we look at each other, we have trees behind us.

Speaker: 00:02:36

We have the sun coming through.

Speaker: 00:02:38

So it's a, it's in a, a wonderful setting for what I think I

Speaker: 00:02:43

know the first story is about.

Speaker: 00:02:44

So Hears Crow, please tell us a story.

Speaker: 00:02:49

Thank you.

Speaker: 00:02:50

There are people who have come up to me, and by the way,

Speaker: 00:02:54

thank you for having me again.

Speaker: 00:02:56

I always look forward to hearing both of you when you tell.

Speaker: 00:03:00

It's said by some that you know the language, and if you know the stories

Speaker: 00:03:07

of the people, you know the people.

Speaker: 00:03:11

Many ceremonies, traditions, and prayers that were once a part of the Indian

Speaker: 00:03:16

people of Turtle Island have been left behind along the trail, as it were.

Speaker: 00:03:24

The ancestors traveled, with seeds were planted along the way.

Speaker: 00:03:30

But if we sit in a circle at a ceremony or, I don't know, on a summer's eve

Speaker: 00:03:38

after a powwow, this is what we do.

Speaker: 00:03:42

There may be a little music, but there's always at least a story.

Speaker: 00:03:51

Before the arrival of the colonists who settled this land, it was a very

Speaker: 00:03:58

prosperous village where, oh, I don't know, the crops grew well, the children

Speaker: 00:04:06

were cherished, the elders respected, and people were good t- caretakers

Speaker: 00:04:13

of the land, and the other relatives.

Speaker: 00:04:18

But things change with time, and there came a summer when the grandfather

Speaker: 00:04:24

sun shone hot through the long days, and the rains didn't fall.

Speaker: 00:04:31

This produced what ended up being a long, terrible drought.

Speaker: 00:04:38

Well, each time the sun rode the sky, the land grew drier and drier.

Speaker: 00:04:46

The relatives suffered along with the two-leggeds and there was less

Speaker: 00:04:49

game to hunt, less fish to gather.

Speaker: 00:04:53

So the people were getting hungry.

Speaker: 00:04:56

They were worried about the elders and the children.

Speaker: 00:04:59

So they went to what was called a medicine man or a holy man,

Speaker: 00:05:06

and they brought him tobacco.

Speaker: 00:05:08

And they asked him please to go to the Tree of Life, to pray for the

Speaker: 00:05:16

people, to pray that all of them, the four-leggeds, two-leggeds, the

Speaker: 00:05:22

winged, all of them should be made whole with the coming of the rain.

Speaker: 00:05:30

He accepted the tobacco for himself and his apprentice who would accompany him.

Speaker: 00:05:37

As it happened, they were ready to leave the next morning just as the sun came up.

Speaker: 00:05:48

And the two of them took their bed rolls and their packs and walked their way away

Speaker: 00:05:56

from the village where they were born.

Speaker: 00:06:00

Now, they traveled west into what would be the setting sun later on, and they

Speaker: 00:06:06

went north through the great forest.

Speaker: 00:06:10

There were many lakes in the great forest, and then they came to the mountain.

Speaker: 00:06:17

Now, the mountain was a very hard climb for the old holy man.

Speaker: 00:06:24

But the boy took one of his packs, put it on his other shoulder, and the two

Speaker: 00:06:29

of them climbed all the way to the top.

Speaker: 00:06:33

And they looked out over the land and celebrated thanksgiving,

Speaker: 00:06:38

gratitude for all that they saw.

Speaker: 00:06:42

And then they came down the next day, and they continued.

Speaker: 00:06:48

They continued on.

Speaker: 00:06:49

They walked for many miles, until they came to the place where there

Speaker: 00:06:54

was a mighty river that fed one of the lakes, and it was moving very fast.

Speaker: 00:07:03

But the old man knew, because his ancestors and predecessors had told

Speaker: 00:07:09

him, that there was a place where the water was shallow and they could cross.

Speaker: 00:07:15

So the apprentice watched the old man go on and on.

Speaker: 00:07:19

He must have walked for miles, and then he found the place.

Speaker: 00:07:24

You could see the tops of the rocks.

Speaker: 00:07:27

You could see where there was sandy water, and he knew that

Speaker: 00:07:32

barefoot they could cross.

Speaker: 00:07:34

And they did.

Speaker: 00:07:36

As they came to the other side was the wide, beautiful meadow.

Speaker: 00:07:40

Every flower that blooms late in the season was in full face and welcomed them.

Speaker: 00:07:49

Then they could see from that field the tree, the tree where they made all of

Speaker: 00:07:57

their high ceremonies for the people.

Speaker: 00:08:02

So they went over and unpacked.

Speaker: 00:08:05

The apprentice took out the smudge and made the beautiful smoke come

Speaker: 00:08:12

up so they could cleanse themselves of any hardship that they had

Speaker: 00:08:17

experienced on the long journey.

Speaker: 00:08:22

And he helped the old man load the pipe, and they said their prayers.

Speaker: 00:08:29

And then, they sang the song: the song of gratitude.

Speaker: 00:08:36

And there was a final prayer of supplication.

Speaker: 00:08:41

And after that was done,

Speaker: 00:08:44

they thanked the Tree.

Speaker: 00:08:46

They left many gifts for the other relatives, and they walked back to the

Speaker: 00:08:52

meadow, and there they spent the night.

Speaker: 00:08:56

And they moved on, and they tracked back the same way that

Speaker: 00:09:01

they had come, because many people had tried to follow that trail.

Speaker: 00:09:08

And if you take just one turn wrong, you never see the

Speaker: 00:09:12

tree, and some never get home.

Speaker: 00:09:16

So they were cautious, and back home they went.

Speaker: 00:09:20

Now, of course, they were waiting for them back home, because

Speaker: 00:09:25

they were looking for good news.

Speaker: 00:09:29

And as they pulled up, the two of them dragging their wagons, so to

Speaker: 00:09:34

speak, they were greeted by cheers.

Speaker: 00:09:39

They took the old man by the arm and put him down in the

Speaker: 00:09:42

best seat next to the fire.

Speaker: 00:09:44

And the little bit of food that they had to share, they gave to the old man.

Speaker: 00:09:49

They said, "Tell us. Tell us." And the old man just took one, maybe two bites, raised

Speaker: 00:09:57

one up to the sky, and he started to tell them about the journey, about where they

Speaker: 00:10:03

had gone, what they had done, what they had faced, and what they had overcome.

Speaker: 00:10:10

And as he finished, the people were nodding their heads, and a couple

Speaker: 00:10:16

were looking up because suddenly there were two gray clouds in the sky.

Speaker: 00:10:24

And they looked and they looked, and little by little, a drop, and drop,

Speaker: 00:10:31

and a drop of rain began to come down.

Speaker: 00:10:35

And he finished telling the story, and the people's troubles were relieved.

Speaker: 00:10:44

Now, I would say it was probably a full generation, maybe a

Speaker: 00:10:50

little more, before anything else became a problem for the people.

Speaker: 00:10:57

They didn't suffer much because they lived in a good way, and Creator

Speaker: 00:11:06

and all the spirits saw that.

Speaker: 00:11:09

So for many years, things never changed.

Speaker: 00:11:14

But with time, they did.

Speaker: 00:11:18

The holy man now who had once been the apprentice crossed

Speaker: 00:11:23

the lodge of his ancestors.

Speaker: 00:11:26

And he gave thanks to the man who had taught him.

Speaker: 00:11:30

But he was now old and he was tired.

Speaker: 00:11:33

And yet the people were very, very worried, because now the rains had

Speaker: 00:11:41

come, but they had not stopped.

Speaker: 00:11:45

And again, the crops could not grow as they should.

Speaker: 00:11:52

And the people were so tired and drained from working so hard to keep everything

Speaker: 00:12:00

going, that they finally gave up, and they went to the holy man, and they gifted him.

Speaker: 00:12:12

And he said, "I do not know how, but I will try. I will remember." And

Speaker: 00:12:21

the next morning, there was no sun to get up to.

Speaker: 00:12:27

But the two men left with their bundles, and they traveled the same route.

Speaker: 00:12:34

And they went west and then north.

Speaker: 00:12:39

They went up the great mountain and down again.

Speaker: 00:12:44

They came to the beautiful meadow, and

Speaker: 00:12:50

they could see the living Tree from where they were, and they were

Speaker: 00:12:56

grateful, and they went forward.

Speaker: 00:13:00

But as they did, they realized that they did not see any

Speaker: 00:13:05

shallow spot on the great river.

Speaker: 00:13:09

And so they walked as they had before, and they walked, and walked, and walked.

Speaker: 00:13:18

And the old man found another spot where they could cross, and they did.

Speaker: 00:13:26

And they walked back to the Tree.

Speaker: 00:13:30

And they did the smudge and the pipe.

Speaker: 00:13:35

They did all the things that were required.

Speaker: 00:13:39

The song was sung.

Speaker: 00:13:42

The gifts were laid.

Speaker: 00:13:45

But when it came to the prayer,

Speaker: 00:13:52

the holy man could not remember, as it had been so long since he'd learned.

Speaker: 00:14:01

They did not have anything further, so they added one more gift.

Speaker: 00:14:10

And they gave their gratitude and thanksgiving, and they returned as

Speaker: 00:14:14

they had come through the mountains, the rivers, everything that this

Speaker: 00:14:23

story carries, they did again.

Speaker: 00:14:27

And they came back to the village, and in the village, the people were waiting.

Speaker: 00:14:34

It was so cold and damp.

Speaker: 00:14:41

But they took a dry blanket out of one of the wetus and they put

Speaker: 00:14:46

it on the best seat by the fire.

Speaker: 00:14:50

Took a lot of logs to keep it running, but it was still there welcoming them home.

Speaker: 00:14:57

And he took a couple of bites of food, gave the rest to his apprentice,

Speaker: 00:15:04

and he began to tell the story.

Speaker: 00:15:08

And when he told the story and all that had transpired, he said how sorry he was

Speaker: 00:15:15

that he could not remember the prayer that closed the ceremony, but that they

Speaker: 00:15:20

had left gifts, and he was thankful.

Speaker: 00:15:28

And he told the story, and the people's troubles were relieved.

Speaker: 00:15:36

Well now, there is a long stretch among this village.

Speaker: 00:15:41

There is no flood, no drought.

Speaker: 00:15:47

They're not raiding anybody.

Speaker: 00:15:49

Nobody's raiding them.

Speaker: 00:15:51

It was a very good time, and it lasted generations.

Speaker: 00:15:56

And for every generation, there was a holy man and an apprentice.

Speaker: 00:16:03

But of course,

Speaker: 00:16:07

there was a time when people came from across the great water.

Speaker: 00:16:14

And while some of them would speak to them, many of them

Speaker: 00:16:22

would not, not in a good way.

Speaker: 00:16:26

And the people were worried because one child seemed to be missing.

Speaker: 00:16:34

They were still looking for the child, but they were very worried that

Speaker: 00:16:39

something might have happened to her.

Speaker: 00:16:43

And so they went to the holy man, and they did what generations

Speaker: 00:16:47

of people had taught them to do.

Speaker: 00:16:50

They gave gifts of tobacco and prayer ties.

Speaker: 00:17:00

So the two of them set off, and they knew that it was west and then north

Speaker: 00:17:09

into the woods, and that's what they did.

Speaker: 00:17:13

But the mountain was very different than it used to be.

Speaker: 00:17:17

It was now vastly overgrown.

Speaker: 00:17:20

The old path that they used to take had to be… I don't even know what to say.

Speaker: 00:17:27

They had to bush through all of the growth that had happened

Speaker: 00:17:32

since the last holy men had come.

Speaker: 00:17:35

And up the mountain and back down they came.

Speaker: 00:17:44

And then,

Speaker: 00:17:47

they came to the meadow, and the meadow, now it was spring, so it was rampant

Speaker: 00:17:54

with greens and yellows and oranges.

Speaker: 00:17:59

And they crossed the meadow and came to the river.

Speaker: 00:18:07

The river was raging, and the old man said,

Speaker: 00:18:13

"The elders have talked about this. I will go and see if I can find

Speaker: 00:18:18

a place for us to cross." And he went up and down and up and down.

Speaker: 00:18:29

No, they could not find the place.

Speaker: 00:18:35

They could not even cross the river.

Speaker: 00:18:41

So they laid out, they lit the smudge, and they laid out the pipe, and they

Speaker: 00:18:48

did their ceremony on this side.

Speaker: 00:18:56

They looked to the Tree.

Speaker: 00:18:57

They thanked the Tree.

Speaker: 00:18:59

They left presents all along the riverbank.

Speaker: 00:19:05

And they turned and returned home.

Speaker: 00:19:11

They were worried about the little girl and about all of the

Speaker: 00:19:15

people 'cause they did not know these strangers to be helpful.

Speaker: 00:19:21

And back they came just exactly as they had come.

Speaker: 00:19:27

And as they approached the village, the person on watch shouted

Speaker: 00:19:32

out that they were coming back.

Speaker: 00:19:35

And the old man was given the best place by the river.

Speaker: 00:19:39

And the sickness that the new people had brought, was taking the

Speaker: 00:19:44

old ones and the children still.

Speaker: 00:19:49

And so

Speaker: 00:19:53

he sat down and he told them, he apologized to them with all

Speaker: 00:20:00

of his heart and his training.

Speaker: 00:20:02

He apologized that he could not get across the river safely, and

Speaker: 00:20:07

he did not want to jeopardize

Speaker: 00:20:11

his apprentice, the next holy man, because the people needed them.

Speaker: 00:20:17

And he told them the whole story.

Speaker: 00:20:21

And with that, the people's troubles…

Speaker: 00:20:25

Wait.

Speaker: 00:20:26

Wait, there's a girl.

Speaker: 00:20:28

There's a little girl, and she's running.

Speaker: 00:20:30

She's running towards them, and she stops and says, "They're leaving.

Speaker: 00:20:39

They're leaving.

Speaker: 00:20:40

I got lost in the woods, and I ended up seeing them.

Speaker: 00:20:44

They're all packed up, and they're going south by the coast.

Speaker: 00:20:47

They're leaving us." And with that

Speaker: 00:20:53

the people's troubles were relieved.

Speaker: 00:20:57

Ho!

Speaker: 00:21:01

Oh.

Speaker: 00:21:03

Oh.

Speaker: 00:21:05

Oh my goodness, Hears Crow, that was absolutely beautiful, you know?

Speaker: 00:21:11

Um, it felt to me like a 3D telling.

Speaker: 00:21:15

It's almost such a pity that we don't have, uh, the video part of this.

Speaker: 00:21:21

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:21:21

And also I felt longings, longings to be in person with you in this story.

Speaker: 00:21:29

And a longing to lie down and receive it in the prone position, you know?

Speaker: 00:21:34

So, but what a beautiful, nourishing, Bean Feasa, wise wisdom story.

Speaker: 00:21:44

You know?

Speaker: 00:21:45

Yakoke is the only language I know of Native American, so.

Speaker: 00:21:50

You know?

Speaker: 00:21:51

How do you say thank you in your language, Hears Crow?

Speaker: 00:21:54

Uh, there are two ways to say it.

Speaker: 00:21:56

Nötäbitän or nötäbitä, because one is I'm grateful for it, and

Speaker: 00:22:02

the other's I'm grateful for you.

Speaker: 00:22:06

We have one word for a whole sentence.

Speaker: 00:22:09

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:09

Nötäbitän, nötäbitä.

Speaker: 00:22:11

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:12

Both.

Speaker: 00:22:15

Thank you.

Speaker: 00:22:16

Agus go raibh míle maith agat.

Speaker: 00:22:18

So the way, the way Ireland, uh, says thank you is that, uh,

Speaker: 00:22:22

100,000 good things come to you.

Speaker: 00:22:24

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:22:26

You know?

Speaker: 00:22:26

And by speaking the words, they're already on the way, so.

Speaker: 00:22:31

Go raibh míle maith agat.

Speaker: 00:22:34

You know, we've spoken about this before, and I'll share it with our listeners now.

Speaker: 00:22:40

This is a story that we had the amazing experience of telling independently and

Speaker: 00:22:49

realizing we each have the same story from our, our separate traditions.

Speaker: 00:22:55

I don't think there's any likelihood that one of our

Speaker: 00:23:00

traditions took it from the other.

Speaker: 00:23:02

I think this is just a really, really ancient motif that, uh, has

Speaker: 00:23:08

arisen, in each of our traditions.

Speaker: 00:23:11

And as you say, this is a, a foundational reason to tell stories.

Speaker: 00:23:19

You know?

Speaker: 00:23:20

In my version, the recurring refrain is, "But I can remember the story,

Speaker: 00:23:25

and that was enough," and it is.

Speaker: 00:23:28

It is.

Speaker: 00:23:28

The story, much as the way you told it, the story brings back that world

Speaker: 00:23:34

to us in, in all of its richness.

Speaker: 00:23:37

And, uh, we don't have to actually be in the woods for that to happen.

Speaker: 00:23:42

Um, helps.

Speaker: 00:23:44

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:23:44

But, but-

Speaker: 00:23:45

Like, you know, in, in the cadence and the pace in which Hears Crow told that story,

Speaker: 00:23:53

and the lovely pregnant pauses that we forget about in today's world, there was

Speaker: 00:24:00

the story and the in between in the story.

Speaker: 00:24:04

So it was… it's, it's like, uh, the motif you have

Speaker: 00:24:07

behind your head, Hears Crow.

Speaker: 00:24:09

At first glance it's a tree, but there's more to it, and

Speaker: 00:24:13

there's, there's things behind it.

Speaker: 00:24:15

And I'm, I'm very familiar that if, you know, in, in having a great-grandmother

Speaker: 00:24:20

that was a Bean Feasa, a wise woman, it feels very familiar to me, you know?

Speaker: 00:24:25

Kind of that, um, and it also feels a little bit missing in today's time.

Speaker: 00:24:33

And it is a nourishment.

Speaker: 00:24:35

That kind of pace is a good digestive, you know?

Speaker: 00:24:40

It's a way of digesting emotions, that lovely pace.

Speaker: 00:24:44

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:24:45

Thank you.

Speaker: 00:24:48

Well, Maria, has this, uh, sparked a story for you?

Speaker: 00:24:52

Has it, Jim?

Speaker: 00:24:54

The threading and the weaving.

Speaker: 00:24:56

I've actually had an, an incredible few weeks where I reached my seventh decade.

Speaker: 00:25:03

So I'm, I'm now 60, 60 years old.

Speaker: 00:25:06

And, for the last night and the day before, I was minding the

Speaker: 00:25:11

next of the next generation.

Speaker: 00:25:13

So, my great-grandnephew, my grandnephew, and my grandnieces, you know?

Speaker: 00:25:20

I harvested straight out of my five-year-old grandnephew's brain.

Speaker: 00:25:26

His name is Ryan Keane.

Speaker: 00:25:29

So Ryan Keane, thank you for this story that I'm about to share with everybody.

Speaker: 00:25:36

Once upon a time, there was a beautiful sunshiny village

Speaker: 00:25:41

in the middle of Cork City.

Speaker: 00:25:44

It was one of those villages where the sunshine came through the

Speaker: 00:25:48

trees and laid itself as a dappled pattern on the ground before you.

Speaker: 00:25:54

And the school there was absolutely amazing.

Speaker: 00:25:58

All the teachers were lovely, and all the lessons were absolutely wonderful.

Speaker: 00:26:04

And one day, a brand new student came to St. Joseph's Primary School

Speaker: 00:26:12

in Glanmire in County Cork, and his name was Finnegas McFartpants.

Speaker: 00:26:20

And he came from a place called Flatulencia, a far, far away place

Speaker: 00:26:27

where they had plenty of gas, and so they never had a problem with

Speaker: 00:26:33

electricity or anything like that.

Speaker: 00:26:35

But unfortunately, poor old Finnegas had a problem.

Speaker: 00:26:39

He was allergic to peas and beans and broccoli, and especially

Speaker: 00:26:46

if you had all three together.

Speaker: 00:26:48

So before he started in school, his mother went to see the wonderful

Speaker: 00:26:52

teacher and told Mrs. Lynch all about Finnegas McFartpants's, allergy.

Speaker: 00:27:01

And so she spoke to the class and she said, "Look, we're a very

Speaker: 00:27:04

welcoming place here, and I want everybody to welcome this new person.

Speaker: 00:27:10

His name is Finnegas, but his friends call him Gassy for short.

Speaker: 00:27:15

And he has a problem with peas and beans and broccoli, so we have to make sure, as

Speaker: 00:27:23

a class, that he never, ever tastes them, because even one pea, even one bean, even

Speaker: 00:27:30

one sliver of broccoli could mean that he ha- would have to go to the hospital."

Speaker: 00:27:36

And all the children made this sound, "Oh," to show how

Speaker: 00:27:42

serious they were taking it.

Speaker: 00:27:45

And there was one very kind girl whose name was Helen, and Helen put

Speaker: 00:27:49

up her hand, and she said, "Teacher, would Gassy like to sit next to me

Speaker: 00:27:54

when he comes to school?" And she said, "That's very kind of you.

Speaker: 00:27:57

I think he would.

Speaker: 00:27:58

And maybe you could make sure that he never, ever has a pea or

Speaker: 00:28:03

a bean or a piece of broccoli."

Speaker: 00:28:07

But down in the back of the class, there was a young man

Speaker: 00:28:12

rubbing his hands together.

Speaker: 00:28:14

He was called Billy, and everybody in class called him Billy the

Speaker: 00:28:19

Bully, 'cause he could be very mean, especially to new children.

Speaker: 00:28:25

So on the day that Gassy came in, all of the children were delighted to

Speaker: 00:28:30

see him, and the whole day was spent about finding out about Flatulencia,

Speaker: 00:28:36

the town from which he came.

Speaker: 00:28:40

And they found it fascinating.

Speaker: 00:28:43

And he sat in next to Helen, and he was having a great time with

Speaker: 00:28:47

Helen, all until small break.

Speaker: 00:28:50

But at small break, Helen had to go because she'd forgotten her lunch.

Speaker: 00:28:56

She had to go and get her lunch from her mommy at the gates of the school.

Speaker: 00:29:00

So poor old Gassy was standing on his own, and who, dun, dun, dun,

Speaker: 00:29:06

dun, dun, who came up to him?

Speaker: 00:29:10

Only Billy the Bully.

Speaker: 00:29:12

And Billy said, "Would you like a Rolo?" And he said, "I would.

Speaker: 00:29:17

I'd, I'd love a piece of chocolate, thanks very much." So he took one of the pieces

Speaker: 00:29:22

of chocolate and he went, um, num, num, num, and it was gone down into his belly.

Speaker: 00:29:27

And then Billy, pretending to be really nice, said, "Here, have a second one."

Speaker: 00:29:32

And so, mmm, and he ate the second one, and he ate the third one.

Speaker: 00:29:39

And then he said, "I can't eat any more of your sweets." And Billy

Speaker: 00:29:43

said, "No, it's fine, all together.

Speaker: 00:29:45

I have a packet for myself as well.

Speaker: 00:29:46

My mom knew you were coming, so she gave me a pack for you.

Speaker: 00:29:50

And at small break, that's the time we eat the chocolate."

Speaker: 00:29:53

Which was a lie, because they were learning all about healthy food.

Speaker: 00:29:57

But do you know what was in the chocolate?

Speaker: 00:30:01

In every small piece of chocolate, he was after shoving in a pea or a bean or a

Speaker: 00:30:11

sliver of broccoli, and then another pea, another bean, another sliver of broccoli.

Speaker: 00:30:16

And so poor old Gassy, he ate them and he ate them without

Speaker: 00:30:20

realizing what was going on.

Speaker: 00:30:23

And then it started.

Speaker: 00:30:25

First, there was a small little sound from his bottom region.

Speaker: 00:30:30

Then,

Speaker: 00:30:33

there was a longer sound.

Speaker: 00:30:35

Then there was a longer, louder sound.

Speaker: 00:30:41

And he took off up into the air, and he passed the top of the tree.

Speaker: 00:30:47

And the fire brigade up in Ballyvalinn saw him, and they sent the, the

Speaker: 00:30:51

fire brigade out to see what was going on down in Glanmire, and all

Speaker: 00:30:55

the children started screaming.

Speaker: 00:30:58

And the smell, oh, I can't even tell you how bad the smell was, and it made

Speaker: 00:31:04

some of the children feel really sick.

Speaker: 00:31:07

And the teacher had to start ringing all the moms to come

Speaker: 00:31:10

in and get their children.

Speaker: 00:31:12

And poor old Gassy, well, he landed in the top of a tree, and the fire brigade

Speaker: 00:31:18

came and they got him down, and he was brought off to see the principal, who said

Speaker: 00:31:22

he had to see the nurse straight away.

Speaker: 00:31:25

And the nurse was lovely, and she said, "Did you eat anything that

Speaker: 00:31:31

your mom didn't pack for you? Because you know that you have allergies."

Speaker: 00:31:36

And he said, "No, I didn't. I really didn't." Because he had forgotten in

Speaker: 00:31:41

all of the excitement that Billy the Bully had given him a packet of Rolos.

Speaker: 00:31:46

And so when Billy the Bully came knocking on the door, when he came

Speaker: 00:31:52

knocking on the door, well, the teacher said, "What can I do for you, Billy?"

Speaker: 00:31:57

And she knew that sometimes he could be a bit strange.

Speaker: 00:32:01

And Billy said, "Well, I live very near Gassy, and I was wondering,

Speaker: 00:32:05

would I walk him home?" And the nurse didn't really want to let it happen,

Speaker: 00:32:10

but she couldn't find an excuse in her head not to let it happen.

Speaker: 00:32:13

So she said, "Okay, but I'll be ringing your mom, and I'll be ringing his

Speaker: 00:32:18

mom to make sure that he got home."

Speaker: 00:32:20

And Billy said, "Yeah, yeah. That's no problem at all."

Speaker: 00:32:24

And as they were walking home, Gassy said, "I'm so ashamed. Now everybody

Speaker: 00:32:30

knows what my worst, worst secret is."

Speaker: 00:32:33

And Billy said, "That's an amazing secret. I'd love to be able to fart to

Speaker: 00:32:38

order. I'd do it in English class because the teacher bores me in English class."

Speaker: 00:32:44

And they kind of laughed at that, the two of them.

Speaker: 00:32:47

And then he said, "Would you like another Rolo?" Oh, no.

Speaker: 00:32:52

And of course, Gassy said, "I'd love another Rolo." So he gave him one,

Speaker: 00:32:57

he gave him two, he gave him three, and it started to build up inside

Speaker: 00:33:04

in poor old Gassy's stomach again.

Speaker: 00:33:08

And the same thing started to happen, except this time, did you ever

Speaker: 00:33:13

see a balloon and you blow it up?

Speaker: 00:33:16

And then you let it go and it goes brrp all over the room?

Speaker: 00:33:20

Well, that's what Gassy looked like flying around the park, and Billy

Speaker: 00:33:26

couldn't stop laughing, except just at that moment, Mrs. McFartpants, Gassy's

Speaker: 00:33:34

mother, walked into the park and she said, "What's going on here? I know that

Speaker: 00:33:40

you've been eating peas and beans and broccoli, and I know you know better."

Speaker: 00:33:47

And he said, "Really, Mam, I haven't.

Speaker: 00:33:49

I haven't." And she says, "Well, then what have you been eating?" And he

Speaker: 00:33:53

opened his hand, and in his hand was a squashed, melty bit of chocolate,

Speaker: 00:33:58

and as it melted they could see the green of a pea coming through.

Speaker: 00:34:04

And Billy the bully put his hands up to his face and he said, "I'm

Speaker: 00:34:07

really sorry. I'm really sorry."

Speaker: 00:34:11

Well, Mrs. McFartpants and Billy's mother and Billy and Gassy all had

Speaker: 00:34:17

to go to the principal's office.

Speaker: 00:34:19

And the principal said, "Gassy, you can't come back for two weeks because you're

Speaker: 00:34:23

not well and you have to let your stomach get better." And she said, "Billy, you

Speaker: 00:34:28

can't come back to school for two whole weeks because you gave him the peas and

Speaker: 00:34:34

the beans and the broccoli and we told you not to, and that was very unkind."

Speaker: 00:34:41

So Billy the Bully thought about it, and his mother killed him,

Speaker: 00:34:46

and Mrs. McFartpants killed him, and his auntie killed him, and

Speaker: 00:34:51

his daddy was very disappointed.

Speaker: 00:34:54

I mean, very disappointed.

Speaker: 00:34:58

And Billy had two weeks to think, and when he came back to the school,

Speaker: 00:35:03

all of the children said, "We're going to have to not play with him.

Speaker: 00:35:08

We're going to have to not talk to him." But Gassy said, "No,

Speaker: 00:35:13

I don't want that to happen.

Speaker: 00:35:15

He's learnt his lesson." And when Billy came in, he really had

Speaker: 00:35:19

learnt his lesson, and he said, "I'm so ashamed and I'm so sorry.

Speaker: 00:35:25

And now that I know what peas and beans and broccoli does to your stomach, well,

Speaker: 00:35:31

we'll never give them to you again."

Speaker: 00:35:34

And so do you know what happened?

Speaker: 00:35:37

Billy and Gassy and Helen are the three bestest friends you'd ever meet

Speaker: 00:35:43

in the whole world, and they all go to St. Joseph's School in Glanmire with

Speaker: 00:35:50

lovely Ryan Keane who made this story.

Speaker: 00:35:53

Sin é mo scéal.

Speaker: 00:35:54

That is my story.

Speaker: 00:36:01

Oh, how delightful.

Speaker: 00:36:06

That's what I thought when I heard the story coming out of him.

Speaker: 00:36:13

You know, it's so interesting.

Speaker: 00:36:15

We find all these different routes into story.

Speaker: 00:36:20

We've pulled from traditional stories.

Speaker: 00:36:24

We create stories on the fly to kinda speak to whatever's

Speaker: 00:36:28

going on in that moment.

Speaker: 00:36:30

We craft stories from our personal experiences, but we all end up

Speaker: 00:36:37

at that same tree, don't we?

Speaker: 00:36:42

You know what really fascinated me when I was pulling the threads out of

Speaker: 00:36:47

Ryan for that story, is he would say to me, "What was your mom like? What

Speaker: 00:36:53

was your grandmother like?" You know?

Speaker: 00:36:55

And of course, that's his great-granny and his great-great-granny, you know.

Speaker: 00:36:59

So I, I was telling him how my granny told stories, and how there was no electricity,

Speaker: 00:37:07

and he was absolutely riveted, you know.

Speaker: 00:37:10

And it's, it can be difficult to rivet kids in this day and age with all of

Speaker: 00:37:14

the competition from television and, you know, online and the whole lot.

Speaker: 00:37:21

But he really was so zoned in to his own bloodline through

Speaker: 00:37:27

story, and that's a gift.

Speaker: 00:37:29

Yeah,

Speaker: 00:37:30

It's actually something that all of us have, but we forget that we have it.

Speaker: 00:37:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:37:40

Okay.

Speaker: 00:37:42

Hears Crow, were you about to say something?

Speaker: 00:37:44

I was just going to say that when COVID struck, I took to the, uh, Zoom ways

Speaker: 00:37:50

and, a couple of times a week I would tell stories, and the two people I could

Speaker: 00:37:58

absolutely depend on were Aaron and Jaylen, who are grandchildren in the UK.

Speaker: 00:38:06

Yes.

Speaker: 00:38:07

So while I did it in the morning, they got it just before dinner.

Speaker: 00:38:12

Oh, how brilliant is that?

Speaker: 00:38:15

And we had, um … It was absolutely lovely.

Speaker: 00:38:18

I don't think they missed a single piece.

Speaker: 00:38:23

And to have the big pond between the two of us, it was a lovely,

Speaker: 00:38:28

lovely way to connect during- Mm … well, a not great time.

Speaker: 00:38:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:38:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:38:35

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:38:36

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:38:37

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:38:38

Well, I have a new story, and I wanna say a little bit about it, in that I'm

Speaker: 00:38:45

working on this project called Healing Monsters, and what I'm doing is looking

Speaker: 00:38:52

for stories about monsters that maybe can teach us about how do we, instead of

Speaker: 00:38:58

trying to defeat the monster every time, as we do in so many of these folktales,

Speaker: 00:39:03

how do we maybe attempt to heal them and maybe even heal ourselves in the process?

Speaker: 00:39:09

And so I've been doing lots of research, and one of the joys of this

Speaker: 00:39:14

is coming across stories and monsters I didn't know anything about before.

Speaker: 00:39:20

It's, it's really taking me into brand new directions.

Speaker: 00:39:24

And so this, this is one of those stories that actually has a couple of different,

Speaker: 00:39:30

different monsters in it, if you will.

Speaker: 00:39:32

And it comes from what we would today call Russia.

Speaker: 00:39:36

It's kind of a combination.

Speaker: 00:39:37

It seems to have risen both out of the Slavic world and out of the Jewish world,

Speaker: 00:39:42

and the story's gonna come together.

Speaker: 00:39:45

But this is a story about Miriam.

Speaker: 00:39:48

Now, Miriam was a woman, an older woman, who had lived with

Speaker: 00:39:56

her husband for so many years.

Speaker: 00:40:01

And while they had never had any children, they had a good life together.

Speaker: 00:40:07

In fact, it was so good and so rich that when he died, the grief

Speaker: 00:40:15

really just rested heavily upon her.

Speaker: 00:40:20

There she was.

Speaker: 00:40:21

She had this little stone house that she lived in in the Jewish quarter.

Speaker: 00:40:27

But it felt like all around there was not just a sadness, but a, almost a hostile

Speaker: 00:40:34

pressure that was on her all the time.

Speaker: 00:40:38

And it felt like there was just… There was a humming, there was a

Speaker: 00:40:42

buzzing, there was… Something wanted to hurt her, it felt like.

Speaker: 00:40:48

And things would happen in the house.

Speaker: 00:40:52

You know, all of a sudden things would get lost, or maybe the fire

Speaker: 00:40:58

would go out, or maybe she heard the sound of breaking glass.

Speaker: 00:41:04

It was, it was all really terribly frightening.

Speaker: 00:41:09

And she went to her neighbors to say, "What do I do?" And they

Speaker: 00:41:14

said, "Ooh, we think you've got one of the shedim in your house.

Speaker: 00:41:20

Maybe more." Now, the shedim, there's this wonderful little period of

Speaker: 00:41:26

time in, in the world of Judaism that happens just before the first

Speaker: 00:41:34

Sabbath, the seventh day of creation.

Speaker: 00:41:38

And all these magical, mystical things get created in this uncertain space

Speaker: 00:41:45

between the secular and the sacred.

Speaker: 00:41:48

And some of these were called shedim, and these were just demons that would

Speaker: 00:41:54

chase widows and try and make their lives miserable And so that's what her neighbor

Speaker: 00:42:02

says, "Sounds like you've got shedim in your house. You've gotta find them and

Speaker: 00:42:08

you've gotta command them to leave."

Speaker: 00:42:12

Well, how do you find them if they're invisible?

Speaker: 00:42:16

You know?

Speaker: 00:42:17

So she went and she read all she could about it, and she realized that if she

Speaker: 00:42:22

would take fine, fine flour and spread it all over the floor before she went to

Speaker: 00:42:31

bed, especially around her bed, she could check in the morning to see if there were

Speaker: 00:42:38

any of the tracks of the shedim there.

Speaker: 00:42:41

And if there were, she could follow them back to wherever it was they

Speaker: 00:42:45

were living and then do what she needed to do to get rid of them.

Speaker: 00:42:51

And so that's what she did.

Speaker: 00:42:52

She spread out this fine flour and she kind of chanted, "If you're here,

Speaker: 00:42:59

show yourself. Leave your marks." She repeated that over and over.

Speaker: 00:43:06

And somehow she went to bed.

Speaker: 00:43:08

I don't think she slept well at all, because what she expected to

Speaker: 00:43:15

find were these kind of chicken claw tracks through the, through the flour.

Speaker: 00:43:23

That's what the shedim would leave.

Speaker: 00:43:25

And sure enough, as she laid there, she heard all these scuffling

Speaker: 00:43:29

sounds throughout the night, and she didn't dare get out of bed until

Speaker: 00:43:36

the morning broke and the light started to come through the window.

Speaker: 00:43:42

And she looked down and sure enough, there were tracks in the flour.

Speaker: 00:43:49

But they weren't claws.

Speaker: 00:43:52

They were the tracks of three-toed feet, little tiny feet.

Speaker: 00:44:01

They didn't circle her bed as the shedim would have been.

Speaker: 00:44:06

They seemed to be going back and forth throughout the house.

Speaker: 00:44:12

And she looked a little more carefully.

Speaker: 00:44:14

She followed the tracks, and some of them went to the fireplace.

Speaker: 00:44:22

And she saw that some of the wood she had cut up for use but had forgotten

Speaker: 00:44:29

to put in the fireplace was stacked up very nicely next to the stove.

Speaker: 00:44:36

And she followed them again, and, and they led to the kitchen table and… Oh, and

Speaker: 00:44:42

there were the glasses, the eyeglasses that she had misplaced, sitting next to

Speaker: 00:44:48

her teacup, waiting for her at breakfast.

Speaker: 00:44:52

And she realized that what these were, they, they weren't shedim.

Speaker: 00:44:58

They were… It was a lantukh, which is a helpful demon, and it was trying to

Speaker: 00:45:08

help her set her house back in order.

Speaker: 00:45:11

She had been so overwhelmed by her loss that she was forgetting things, that

Speaker: 00:45:17

she was hearing things, that she wasn't doing what she needed to do to take

Speaker: 00:45:22

care of herself, and it was running around trying to put the wood back in

Speaker: 00:45:26

the fireplace and the glasses next to the cup and just to lighten the load.

Speaker: 00:45:33

And when she realized that, she went, and she got a cup of

Speaker: 00:45:39

milk, which the lantukh loved.

Speaker: 00:45:43

And she took it, and she put it next to where they were clearly

Speaker: 00:45:46

staying, which was behind the iron.

Speaker: 00:45:50

And from that moment forward, her world started to brighten just a

Speaker: 00:45:55

little bit, and she wasn't afraid anymore, and she realized that there

Speaker: 00:46:03

was still goodness in her life, and all she had to do was discover it.

Speaker: 00:46:13

Lovely.

Speaker: 00:46:15

Ah, that was kinda yummy, Jim.

Speaker: 00:46:18

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:46:18

It's a yummy story.

Speaker: 00:46:19

I loved it, you know.

Speaker: 00:46:21

And I… At first, when you talked about, uh, shedim, I was thinking,

Speaker: 00:46:27

"Is that a poltergeist? Is that a poltergeist right there?" You know?

Speaker: 00:46:31

And it turns out to be a helpful spirit.

Speaker: 00:46:33

And then I realized I have Poltergeist in the chaos name,

Speaker: 00:46:37

I don't have the helpful name.

Speaker: 00:46:39

Aha, aha.

Speaker: 00:46:40

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:46:42

Well, a lot of times in these stories, the, whatever the, the poltergeist or

Speaker: 00:46:47

hobgoblin is, can be either good or bad.

Speaker: 00:46:51

You know, depending upon how you're treating them.

Speaker: 00:46:53

There's versions of them, and this is something I, I love the idea of, if

Speaker: 00:46:59

you're having your house built for you, think about this Hears Crow, and you

Speaker: 00:47:05

mistreat the carpenter, the carpenter will carve an image of one of these

Speaker: 00:47:12

hobgoblins and put it in your house, and it'll make things go very poorly

Speaker: 00:47:19

for you until you find it and repair the damage that you did to the carpenter

Speaker: 00:47:25

so that your house can be restored.

Speaker: 00:47:28

Oh, my dad was a carpenter.

Speaker: 00:47:30

He'd have loved that, you know.

Speaker: 00:47:32

And both my brothers.

Speaker: 00:47:35

Oh, the power.

Speaker: 00:47:37

So, um, my mom, you know, when any of us kind of went into a house,

Speaker: 00:47:42

uh, she'd asked us to put, to put a miraculous medal somewhere in the ground.

Speaker: 00:47:47

So there is a miraculous medal in the ground of all of her

Speaker: 00:47:50

children's houses, you know.

Speaker: 00:47:53

So, yeah.

Speaker: 00:47:54

So I, I have to tell you, my brother and his wife are Roman Catholics,

Speaker: 00:47:59

and many, many years ago, they were getting ready to sell their

Speaker: 00:48:04

house and, and move across country.

Speaker: 00:48:06

And my sister-in-law is a Filipina, and so they have some very

Speaker: 00:48:11

specific kinds of beliefs about how one, how one does things.

Speaker: 00:48:17

And one of the things that you do is if you're gonna sell a house,

Speaker: 00:48:23

you take a statue of St. Joseph-

Speaker: 00:48:25

Yeah

Speaker: 00:48:26

… and you bury it in the ground.

Speaker: 00:48:29

And, um, and upside down, head down.

Speaker: 00:48:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:48:33

Upside down?

Speaker: 00:48:33

Yep.

Speaker: 00:48:33

Yep.

Speaker: 00:48:34

I, I, I th- that… In this tradition.

Speaker: 00:48:37

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:48:38

They believe… There's lots of variations of this, as my brother found out.

Speaker: 00:48:42

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 00:48:42

And that's supposed to help your house sell faster.

Speaker: 00:48:46

Now, my brother is an engineer, and while he's a Catholic,

Speaker: 00:48:51

he's not a mystical Catholic.

Speaker: 00:48:54

And so, but you know, it's what his wife told him to do, so sure enough,

Speaker: 00:48:57

he goes off and he buries the statue of St. Joseph, and the house doesn't sell.

Speaker: 00:49:05

And my sister-in-law says, "Did you bury the statue?" He said, "Yeah." She

Speaker: 00:49:13

said, "Well, which way was it facing?

Speaker: 00:49:16

The house or out?" And he said, "Well, out so that people will be drawn to it."

Speaker: 00:49:22

She says, "No, you're trying to sell the neighbor's house across the street.

Speaker: 00:49:25

Dig it up, turn it around, and bury it again." And that's exactly what

Speaker: 00:49:31

he did, and, and the house sold.

Speaker: 00:49:33

So.

Speaker: 00:49:34

I love that.

Speaker: 00:49:35

I love that.

Speaker: 00:49:36

So, um, w- a lovely red thread of connection.

Speaker: 00:49:40

Saint Joseph is the patron saint of carpenters.

Speaker: 00:49:43

My dad's a carpenter.

Speaker: 00:49:45

And also the patron saint of happy families, and so he was the

Speaker: 00:49:49

patron saint in, in our family.

Speaker: 00:49:51

Do you know?

Speaker: 00:49:52

So when my mother would put us under the protection of Saint Joseph, uh,

Speaker: 00:49:56

and Our Lady, that, the Holy Family.

Speaker: 00:49:59

But, um, Saint Joseph, uh, because he was the paragon, you know?

Speaker: 00:50:05

They, they talk about the paragon of virtue, but he, he, like, you know,

Speaker: 00:50:09

he was the one that, um, put, uh, his family before himself, you know?

Speaker: 00:50:15

And my mother loved that and, um, so those traditions you're talking

Speaker: 00:50:19

about, I'm very familiar, Jim.

Speaker: 00:50:21

Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker: 00:50:22

Very familiar, yeah.

Speaker: 00:50:24

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:50:25

So anyway, so it, we, boy, we've, we've crossed a lot of different waters and

Speaker: 00:50:31

lands today with our- with our stories.

Speaker: 00:50:34

Um,

Speaker: 00:50:37

any closing words?

Speaker: 00:50:38

Any thoughts before we, before we wrap it up for today?

Speaker: 00:50:43

I, I, you know, kind of the Child of Prague is doing a dance in my head, so.

Speaker: 00:50:48

So the Child of Prague I thought was, um, you know, one of these faraway creatures,

Speaker: 00:50:56

you know, when I was growing up.

Speaker: 00:50:59

But, uh, whenever good weather was needed in Ireland, always, always,

Speaker: 00:51:04

but whenever it was needed in Ireland, you'd take the Child of Prague and

Speaker: 00:51:07

you'd place it under the hedge facing out from under the hedge, you know?

Speaker: 00:51:12

And then a bride would have good weather.

Speaker: 00:51:15

So not only was a Child of Prague put out, but the Children of Prague

Speaker: 00:51:19

were put out- before a wedding.

Speaker: 00:51:21

Each household would be putting one out.

Speaker: 00:51:23

And then I went to Prague when I was a EMEA manager full

Speaker: 00:51:28

of science and SMART goals.

Speaker: 00:51:32

And I found the Church of Prague, and I saw the original

Speaker: 00:51:36

Child of Prague, you know?

Speaker: 00:51:38

And my mother was like, "I can't believe it was you. You are the one

Speaker: 00:51:42

that got to see the Child of Prague."

Speaker: 00:51:45

And I was like, "Yeah, absolutely." So but, uh, yeah, so that kinda

Speaker: 00:51:49

hopped into my head- when you were talking about those things.

Speaker: 00:51:52

And what, what lovely memories now, you know, now that my mom is gone, and,

Speaker: 00:51:58

you know, those are great connections.

Speaker: 00:52:00

And I'd still be putting out the Child of Prague if I needed good weather.

Speaker: 00:52:07

I wanna thank you both for your stories, and I really appreciate being here.

Speaker: 00:52:13

And, uh, got my number.

Speaker: 00:52:16

Oh, we do.

Speaker: 00:52:16

We do.

Speaker: 00:52:17

And we will be using it, Hears Crow.

Speaker: 00:52:19

We will be using it.

Speaker: 00:52:22

Thank you both.

Speaker: 00:52:23

All right.

Speaker: 00:52:23

Thank you.

Speaker: 00:52:24

Well, good night, and good day.

Speaker: 00:52:29

Will we say goodbye from Cork?

Speaker: 00:52:31

And goodbye from New York, but only for a while, because we'll be

Speaker: 00:52:35

back again with another episode.

Speaker: 00:52:37

Absolutely.

Speaker: 00:52:38

We can't wait to see you on The Story Road one more time, and from this time

Speaker: 00:52:44

till that, be safe on The Story Road!